Bare

The main issue of any 1.2 is real life fuel consumption under constant loads. It's more pronounced on larger and heavier cars.

The problem with CMP and related cars is width. Namely width for shoulders. In my opinion CMF-B based cars are better, i.e. wider on the inside.

The German designer who once was at Alfa Romeo was brought through Italian design school.

Fleets? Different rules and taxation systems across the EU. Some still prefer diesels. And lets not forget on open roads and motorways diesel is still and will be the best choice.

One digression about the new generation Puretech, the small one 1.2 EB.

AFAIK Miller cycle engines should be better at constant loads but the new 1.2 is no better that the old one. Fuel economy in real life scenarios for open roads and motorways hasn't improved on previous generation non hybrid engine.

@led zeppelin

That's valid for Italy but not Europe wide.

Anyway all I can see in the last 5 years is market share increase for VAG while at th same time STLA has fallen from almost 24% to mere 14% of marker share.

Obviously something is deeply wrong with their strategy. Is it a pricing, products... I don't know although my personal opinion is that almost all is wrong. Platforms, engines, electrification strategy... Just to name a few but the list is substantial.

Just do what Germans are doing in terms of engines, i.e. engine capacity and power levels.

Medium is a design failure. SUV only platform without a proper 4x4 and terrible packaging for a given wheelbase length.

New generation of 1.6 EP and 1.2 EB? They say they're Miller but compression ratio is (too) low. And 1.2 EB Gen III still has the same fuel economy issues as the previous generation. This is something which would be solved by a proper Miller.

Guys... Do you really want 1.6 PSA HEV with EVT? I'm not so sure that Europeans are on live with scooter like effect. Yes, Toyota offers if in Europe but it's Toyota.

Two other big players at HEV market in Europe are Renault Group and Hyundai Group and none of them is offering EVT for HEV.

Speaking about 1.2 TCe with LPG it has dual injection. The engine has both direct injection and multipoint injection.

Problems with 2.2 Multijet and GSE? I'm unaware of anything terribly wrong. Multijet has the same problem as any other Multijet.

21 hours ago, __P said:

Non mi pare sia scritto che il 1.2 sia stato tagliato - dall’oggi al domani tra l’altro? Nelle macchine predisposte al 1.2, che sono buona parte della produzione europea di Stellantis cosa ci mettono nel breve? - a favore del firefly.

Tra l’altro quale Firefly il 1.0T che non fanno più? Il 1.0 aspirato della Panda e della 500? Il 1.5 4 cilindri che é equiparabile al 1.6?

Tra l’altro basta avere un minimo idea di cosa voglia dire fare produzione per capire che é impossibile un cambio di motore così repentino…

Ergo… disinformazione

Hai mai visto i giapponesi fare shopping di brand fuori dal Giappone?

Che se ne farebbero di questi due brand?

I wouldn't agree. 1.5, actually 1.46, from ex FCA is a very compact engine and a true Miller cycle unlike 1.2 and 1.6 from ex PSA although they're saying they're Miller but compression ratio just isn't there.

And to some extent or covers domain of both 1.2 and 1.6 from PSA. And they also can make less powerful versions. Just look at the newest 1.5 TSI which starts at just 115 HP from an internal combustion engine.

2.0 GME of done properly and a true Miller cycle can take over from more powerful 1.6 versions.

Engine list inadequate but it's what it is.

No diesel, no 4 cylinder petrol engine which aren't small 1.2 and which aren't PSA sourced. Sometimes it's good to look what Germans are doing.

2 hours ago, A.Masera said:

Pare che Stellantis abbia sospeso la produzione dei Puretech a favore degli italiani Firefly.

Da Reddit

Lavoro per un azienda che produce il carter della trasmissione del Pure Tech Hybrid. Da una settimana abbiamo fermato la produzione. Lo sapevo che qualcosa bolliva in pentola...

Link?

1 hour ago, Graziano68dt said:

Non esiste(purtroppo) modo di passare dal puretech al firefly da un giorno all'altro per quasi 2 milioni di vetture vendute all'anno...

E comunque torno a dire che il 1.2 catenato non sappiamo come invecchierà, difficile quindi augurarsi un cambiamento dall'oggi al domani.

I don't give a sh** about French brands. Let's switch ex FCA brands to GSE.

BTW. It seems that Punch hybrid transmission has had a lot of issues and maybe still has.

Width of the CMP and bothers is at -B segment level. I'm talking about width at the shoulder level.

On the era of rightsizing and Euro 7 the small 1.0 naturally aspirated engine doesn't make sense at all. 1.3, 1.5 or.... They make sense.

Or adding French engine production at Termoli.

@Marco1975

Even the new 1.6 is an old technology. 11.3:1 compression ratio and so on.

French press said that Europe will get 1.2 HEV.

Here is the thing. Physically 1.6 is almost as big as 2.0 GME. 1.5 GSE is much smaller engine and can be fitted into much smaller cars.

@nucarote

Yes, this is a normal way in big companies. Tavares and all his guys/gals are being ousted. Filosa is building his own team.

Basically JPI is also ex-employee. But he didn't went against Filosa so they'll respect him to retirement. I mean even his Maserati CEO role is ceremonial. Ficili as Maserati COO should be the one who pulls the strings.

GME T4 EVO seems like a major improvement over GME T4 D in every metric but no so over GME T4 M.

Of course I do believe that real life fuel economy improvement will be substantial in real driving conditions over any current version.

Still I do believe that for large cars, RWD large cars, mildly boosted GME T6 running on a Miller cycle would be a better choice.

Look at the torque curve vs for example GME T4 M used on Giulia and Stelvio. Then it's not so good for this engine.

And some decisions are strange like balance shafts in oil pan. Yes, it has less NVH at idle and low rpm but more at higher rpms. Balance shafts in engine block are better for taming NVH at higher rpms plus it doesn't cost engine power at high rpm.

Guys, keep in mind that this engine was originally planned for calendar 2022. Then certain Carlos came in...

So...

Stellantis used Toyota owned suppliers to develop this. I knew this for some time.

Maybe it's even identical to Toyota solutions. I don't know that.

What's wrong. European brand fans do not like scooter like effect.

And yes. Tavares choose EP6. He killed 2.0 Miller development.

From what I've heard Carlos was all for BEV development for American and Italian R&D. Internal combustion engine development was reserved for ex Peugeot.

I'm not sure if we can call this a Miller cycle engine. Still compression ratio is somewhat too low.

On 31/07/2025 at 10:19, nucarote said:

Non è che De Meo abbia fatto questi grandissimi investimenti anzi... 

Alla fine Alpine altro non è che il rebranding di Renault Sport con l'aggiunta di qualche modello simil DS, in ogni caso ci vedo poco da tagliare da quelle parti. Al massimo ci sarà una razionalizzazione dei modelli in gamma tipo Captur, Arkana e Symbioz che diventeranno un solo modello così come Austral, Espace e Rafale e soprattuto estensioni delle JV e outsourcing già applicata con Twingo.

Hmh...

First of a lot depends on ICE ban in Europe. Things CAC change.

But speaking about models you've mentioned. I could see 3 of them being kept in the lineup if not 4. Just 2? Surely not.

Guys. I know it's an off topic. But are they planning the next generation Captur?