24 minuti fa, 4200blu scrive:

A questo punto siamo sicuri che gli investimenti sono davvero abbastanza? Naturalmente potrebbe essere una differenza nella efficienza, molto non significa sempre e per forza molto effetto, ma in paragone Stellantis, complesso di 7Mio unite/anno con 14 marchi ha diciarato investimenti in elettrificazione e software di 30Mrd dollari, invece la piccola Mercedes con i suoi 2,3Mio unite investe 40Mrd Euro e qualche giorni fa Källenius ha dichiarato, che molto probabile ci sara un aumento in questo investimento. Vediamo se gli 30Mrd di Stellantis in futuro saranno sufficiente.

 

 

I 30 mld temporalmente partono dal 22 ed arrivano al 2025. Meglio precisarlo altrimenti qualcuno potrebbe pensare che si spendono 30 mld e stiamo a posto. Non è così...

Modificato 27 Luglio 20232 anni fa da pennellotref

13 minuti fa, pennellotref scrive:

qualcuno potrebbe pensare che si spendono 30 mld e stiamo a posto. Non è così...

si certo che continuano anche dopo, ma anche alla Daimler la maggior parte delle 40 Mrd e fino a 2025/26, il momento da quando escono come sviluppi nuovi solo auto full electric. Per me sembra che per i investimenti nell futuro Stellantis va con freno a mano tirato (e meglio, risparmia anche qui simile alla produzione), ma potrebbe sbagliare.

 

 

30 minuti fa, 4200blu scrive:

si certo che continuano anche dopo, ma anche alla Daimler la maggior parte delle 40 Mrd e fino a 2025/26, il momento da quando escono come sviluppi nuovi solo auto full electric. Per me sembra che per i investimenti nell futuro Stellantis va con freno a mano tirato (e meglio, risparmia anche qui simile alla produzione), ma potrebbe sbagliare.

 

 

 

A sparar cifre ai 4 venti son buoni tutti; dipende sempre cosa è compreso nelle cifre che si pubblicizzano. Es.: i 30 mld di Stellantis riguardano solo R&D hard/soft; i 70 e oltre di VW contengono hard/soft e marketing per un periodo analogo. Ora, considerando che la funzione marketing da diversi anni ha fondamentalmente lo stesso peso dell' R&D....la conclusione la lascio a voi. Per quanto riguarda Merc., il loro piano arriva al 26 e parliamo di un gruppo prettamente premium/luxury a bassissima o assente componente generalista.

Modificato 27 Luglio 20232 anni fa da pennellotref

7 ore fa, tenore scrive:

 

ma a me non sta antipatica, pero vedo che il caso di quote mercato e sempre piu ampio e preoccupante. a giugno in europa con un mercato su del 20% stellantis ha fatto -2%. Se la scusa e che ci sono problemi di logistica, allora e ancora preoccupante che non si stiano risolvendo.

 

spingere i magini sempre piu in alto e positivo, ma se lo fai piu che altro solo alzando i prezzi (si vede in quasi tutte le chart walk aoi) non vorrei che ora a medio termine le quote mercato ce perdi oggi sono clienti che si sa e difficile poi recuperare

 

Se prendi un dato così e non lo contestualizzi. Stellantis viene da una crescita negli anni, c'è stata una parziale crisi di vag e una crisi di Renault, un buon  successo di modelli nuovi lanciati che ora sono a fine corsa. Etc etc. C'è stato l' ingresso dei cinesi, la ripresa di vag e Renault il buon successo di Hyundai etc Ora si prepara a sfornare nuovi modelli e nuovi pianali e potrà mantenere o migliorare le quote.

Sugli investimenti per l'elettrico tavares ha sempre detto di essere 1/3 più efficiente degli avversari. Ha pianali nuovi elettrici già pronti e che sta lanciando ( medium e large) ha già le JV per le batterie con 1 fabbrica già finita, JV su chip e software, materi prime, quote in società che fanno r&v su batterie allo stato solido, nuovi inverter. È in programma un offensiva sul lancio di modelli bev a partire da quest'anno in Europa e dal prossimo negli Usa. Cosa deve fare di più

Comunque vag fa - 4% in borsa ora, forse la trim non è il massimo 

6 ore fa, 4200blu scrive:

A questo punto siamo sicuri che gli investimenti sono davvero abbastanza? Naturalmente potrebbe essere una differenza nella efficienza, molto non significa sempre e per forza molto effetto, ma in paragone Stellantis, complesso di 7Mio unite/anno con 14 marchi ha diciarato investimenti in elettrificazione e software di 30Mrd dollari, invece la piccola Mercedes con i suoi 2,3Mio unite investe 40Mrd Euro e qualche giorni fa Källenius ha dichiarato, che molto probabile ci sara un aumento in questo investimento. Vediamo se gli 30Mrd di Stellantis in futuro saranno sufficiente.

 

 

 

buosogna vedere cosa coprono gli investimenti e per quanto anni per non misciare carote con patate

Un bel po’ di messaggi OT sono stati spostati nella discussione più consona… ⤵️

 

 

https://it.motor1.com/news/678863/audi-saic-volkswagen-xpeng/

Comunque le 2 « stelle » automotive di Exor (Ferrari e Stellantis presidiate da Elkann) sono al vertice mondiale come profitabilita. Non male per l’erede degli Agnelli direi.

Modificato 27 Luglio 20232 anni fa da Stellaris

Stellantis CTO Ned Curic: 'You don't buy software, you buy the car'
The automaker's technology chief says that the bottom line is to build cars that buyers are excited to own and drive.

Ned Curic, Stellantis' chief technology officer, has deep experience both inside and outside of the auto industry. Before joining the automaker in 2021, he was vice president, Alexa automotive, at Amazon and had also worked at Toyota and Microsoft. As of July 1, Curic's responsibilities have expanded to include engineering and R&D. Curic spoke to Automotive News Europe News Editor Peter Sigal on the sidelines of the ANE Congress in Paris on June 14 about the technological challenges ahead.

You will take on more responsibilities with the retirement of Harald Wester, who was head of engineering. What will your job entail?

So before, I was responsible for all future technologies, future platforms, in some cases things we were working on eight to 10 years out. But after July 1, it will include all existing platforms and vehicles, everything from engineering to actually shipping the vehicles. So the job got immensely bigger. We decided to reorganize the team a little bit, with Sebastien Jacquet as my deputy taking more operational responsibility for existing programs so I can continue to spend time on future programs.

Speaking of future technologies, how is Stellantis going to manage the decline of the combustion engine market and the rise of electric vehicles? 

We have to respond to market conditions. We see Europe moving really, really quickly, so our goal is that by 2030 100 percent of our vehicles in Europe will be electric, while in North America we see very big growth, but it's not going to be 100 percent electric. Our goal there to be 50 percent electric, and we believe there will be enough demand for that level. There are certain markets where electric vehicles are not going to sell as much, such as the Middle East, Africa and South America. But we’re well prepared for that sort of a balance between different market conditions and we’re ready to respond to any changes.

Would Stellantis consider setting up an entity just to build combustion engines, similar to what Renault and Geely are planning?

Carlos Tavares [Stellantis CEO] has been asked that question, and his answer is consistently no. I think it's a distraction, so [we] don’t have people who stay in internal combustion feeling obsolete. It's very disruptive for organizations to do those kind of carve-outs. In many ways, it looks good on paper, but I think from the perspective of operational responsibility and ability to scale, it's actually not conducive to the business.

One of the most talked-about new technologies is generative AI. How could it affect the buying and driving experience for Stellantis vehicles?

Let’s say you are researching a vehicle like the Jeep Wrangler. With generative AI, you could imagine a scenario by which you go to the Jeep website and say, Tell me what the Wrangler can do for me. You can have a conversational interaction, for example I want to see what the Rubicon Trail looks like with me in the Jeep Wrangler. And on the in-vehicle experience, we already have decided to have an ambient agent inside the vehicle with our new [SmartCockpit] platform. Now, that ambient agent just became far more powerful with generative AI.

Do you mean an avatar?

Yes, like an avatar, but it’s ambient, so you can't see it, like Siri or Alexa, but more powerful with generative AI.

Mapping would be a use that comes to mind.

Yes, mapping or entertainment. Today you can do a lot of things with Alexa or Siri, but you cannot have a really deep conversation. Those agents forget about intent. And generative AI doesn't. It remembers your intent and it sort of just follows up naturally in conversation. You can give the agent personality, ask it to speak to you in a funny tone or a scary tone. I think we'll have a lot of fun and remove friction for customers. It will give them plenty of delights but also usefulness.

One of the catchphrases in the automotive world is the “software defined vehicle.” What does that mean to you?

There's so many different definitions. For me, at the end of the day, we actually build a vehicle -- let’s call it hardware -- that goes 100 mph if you want it to. It's a very sophisticated piece of machinery, and then inside the vehicle is sophisticated software that controls the functions of the vehicle, with a lot of computing power on one side. On the second side you have the ability in the cloud to create a version of that vehicle that manifests itself in a very simulated environment, a digital twin. Then to close the circle, you can design the vehicle in a completely simulated software environment, and experiment with what works and what doesn’t. And then you say, OK, I'm going to produce this vehicle now. I'm going to have a physical manifestation of this vehicle. And now it's defined by this simulation, by the software and the software that goes in this vehicle. So that's sort of what it is.

So the software is defining the perimeter of the vehicle?

The software is what makes the vehicle today easier to build, easier to manage and easier to operate. That’s what it means to me. But there are other definitions, where it means something completely different, such as what software can do for the vehicle. But you don't buy software, you buy the car -- nobody goes out and says, I want to get a virtual version of the Peugeot 2008. No, they buy a 2008 to drive themselves. And so I'm still still a big believer that you need to build an amazing car and the software is there to make it more amazing.

With digital twins you can potentially start the development and industrialization process at the same time, and they can mesh together to produce a better car.

That’s it exactly, and tying it all together is everyone's dream. I wish we could go faster, but we're not there completely. We still build a lot of prototypes. I would like to build fewer prototypes so we can move faster.

How can Stellantis avoid software issues that can delay launches of important models, such as what happened to Volkswagen? 

Simplicity is a main principle. I mentioned this earlier -- why build functions that people are not going to use? We have eliminated probably over 100 functions from the digital cabin [in STLA DigitalCockpit], or we’re integrating functions in a smaller set of modules.

What can you do operationally to ensure that software doesn’t become a problem? 

From the get-go, we decided that we can’t do all the software ourselves. It’s a steep learning experience for a company that hasn't really owned software and software development. Yes, we need to have a lot of software engineers and to do some development ourselves, but we have a lot of good partners, Amazon, Foxconn and Qualcomm, as well as BMW and Waymo [for self-driving]. These partnerships are key to our success, you know. These companies have been doing software for a long, long, long time.

A Waymo self-driving Chrysler Pacifica van. Waymo and Stellantis are partners in autonomous vehicles.

You mentioned BMW and Waymo, who are partners in self-driving. Stellantis’ short-term target is so-called Level 3 autonomy, in which the driver is free to do other things but needs to be ready to take control, by 2024. Is that on track?

We’re still on track to to deploy Level 3 autonomy in 2024. I don’t like using those terms, but you can have some time where you can actually do other things. We will have that in a number of our premium vehicles and as an option in other vehicles. Beyond that, we're learning, we’re experimenting. Completely driverless autonomy will come at some point in the future. I don't know when,. but it will be in a constrained environment, for example, in a city on specific roads, probably in trucking or in robo-taxis.

You talked about simplifying the cockpit experience. How do you do that, when so many cars are adding inputs like voice, touch, haptic touch, gestures?

All cars today on the market, except a few, are immensely complex. You can do one thing in three different ways. And so we are eliminating that, but it's ongoing battle, I have to admit. But we're staying pretty firm. You might introduce something that feels like a novelty at the beginning, but after two or three times it becomes a friction, and people don't like it. And so I think its so important to focus on removing the unnecessary steps to do things and making it easy and natural. I hope we get it right the first time in the first car [to use STLA SmartCockpit].

When will this seamless, frictionless, intuitive interface appear? 

We’re introducing it in 2024. 

User benefits aside, will it help to pull some of the costs out of the vehicle?

The cost of more features is exponential. If you add more functions or buttons, you have to validate a lot more things. So you do remove a lot of validation cost, a lot of complexity costs in the software and hardware. There's a lot of smart savings that can come with reducing complexity. But that's not a driver for me. For me, it’s what makes driving enjoyable? What makes the customer experience enjoyable so you want to come back for more?

What is the most challenging issue for you right now, either on the engineering or technological side?

Weight. it's frustrating for me how heavy cars have become. Very few people talk about it, but cars that used to weigh a ton and a half are now three tons. It’s not good for the environment, it’s not good for resources, it’s not good for efficiency. So I have a challenge for my team: Let's figure out how we can take the weight out of these systems. If we are committed to sustainability, we really need to tackle weight. We say we want to leave this planet in better shape, but we as an industry are still adding a lot more weight to the cars.

Not to point out the obvious, but Stellantis is going to produce an electric Ram pickup with an optional 229 kilowatt-hour battery. That must weigh a lot.

Yes, it frustrates me that all of our cars – for the industry as a whole -- are just too heavy. The cost is becoming unaffordable for the middle classes. So we need to remove that type of cost from the system.
 

(ANE)

 

 

Cita

Citroën C3, la "low cost" Stellantis: zero stelle in sicurezza Latin NCAP
Nei test Latin NCAP la vettura di Citroen, C3, ha raggiunto l'assurdo voto di zero stelle

La Citroen C3 ha ottenuto zero stelle nella Latin NCAP del 2023: il problema sembrano essere le carenze in termini di sicurezza. L'auto risulterebbe instabile nella struttura e nella protezione in caso d'impatto frontale, e i pochi airbag offerti (solo 2) e la mancanza di alcune tecnologie ha portato a questo terribile risultato.

Alejandro Furas, segretario generale di Latin NCAP, ha commentato: “È allarmante il modo in cui Stellantis respinga ripetutamente la sicurezza di base per i latinoamericani e inaccettabile che i loro veicoli mirino così in basso in termini di sicurezza mentre sanno molto bene come produrre auto a prezzi accessibili e molto più sicure. Stellantis ha recentemente affermato che ancora una volta rafforzeranno il loro impegno per la costante evoluzione della sicurezza nei loro prodotti così da commercializzare modelli con i più severi requisiti di ingegneria, qualità e omologazione; con questo risultato ottenuto, sommato allo scarso succeso di Strada, 208, Cronos/Argo tra i tanti, li incoraggiamo fortemente a rivedere questi requisiti che sono lontani da ciò che pretendono e da ciò che meritano i consumatori della regione”.

Stephan Brodziak, presidente di Latin NCAP, ha aggiunto: “È vergognoso che Stellantis, che sa sviluppare auto più sicure a prezzi accessibili, abbia progettato un'auto con una sicurezza così scarsa come la Citroen C3. Un'auto di questo tipo rappresenta un'offesa alla salute e all'integrità dei latinoamericani, che sono ugualmente vulnerabili in caso di incidenti o travolgimenti come gli abitanti di quei paesi dove Stellantis non oserebbe mai vendere un'auto con una sicurezza così bassa. Come consumatori latinoamericani chiediamo con forza a Stellantis di smettere di produrre auto che rappresentano un rischio sia per i loro occupanti che per gli altri utenti della strada. L'analisi della sicurezza dei veicoli, inclusa la valutazione a stelle del Latin NCAP, è uno strumento chiave per avere auto più sicure nella regione. Chiediamo inoltre ai governi di ciascun Paese di incorporare questo strumento il prima possibile a beneficio della popolazione e dell'economia”.

https://www.automoto.it/news/citroen-c3-la-low-cost-stellantis-zero-stelle-in-sicurezza-latin-ncap-video.html